Earlier this month, I interviewed Neil on-stage at the Marketecture Live event in New York, where we discussed how People Inc. has transformed its business in response to the paradigm shift posed by AI. The conversation below is adapted from that interview.
This interview has been edited.
Mark Stenberg: People Inc., formerly known as Dotdash Meredith, was once nearly synonymous with the open web. But now the open web is shrinking, and yet People Inc. has seen nine straight quarters of growth. How?
Neil Vogel: There are two truths in media: If you have great brands and you do great things, you can build durable audiences. Because we used to be so focused on Google, we were the first to see it changing. About three years ago, we realized we needed to change our business, so we invested heavily in TikTok, Instagram, email, apps, and direct relationships. Now, we’re good at 20 things instead of one. It’s harder, but it’s much more durable. We’re nearly $1.8 billion in revenue and over $300 million in EBITDA.
Mark: Has the growth in these new channels compensated for the loss in the old ones?
Neil: About 60% of our business is flat—this is the traditional web model: people come to sites, we sell ads. Google referrals are down about 50% over the last two years. The other 40% of our business is growing at nearly 40%. That includes events, social video, AI licensing, Apple News, and more. So our business now is a race: How fast can we grow the 40% before the 60% declines? So far, we’re winning.
Mark: The one constant in the media business seems to be its decline.
Neil: Decline in some capacity is a constant in every business. You have to deal with it, not complain. Move resources from what’s declining to what’s growing. Media companies think they have a divine right to exist because they had a brand people used to love. You don’t. You have the privilege of trying to exist.
Mark: Where is People Inc. in terms of participating in content marketplaces, i.e. systems where AI firms pay publishers for use of their content?
Neil: There are really two types of AI deals. One is an “all-you-can-eat” licensing deal, which is what we’ve done with OpenAI and Meta. The other is a marketplace model, like with Microsoft Azure, where companies license content on a per-use basis. We don’t really care which one wins—we just want to be paid fairly and be in the room. AI needs three things—power, models, and information—and right now, it’s running out of information. That makes publishers valuable again, especially for fresh content.
Mark: In the open internet era, having a massive portfolio was an advantage. Now, media companies like Condé Nast are openly whittling down their portfolios. How is People Inc. reassessing its house of brands in response to this new paradigm?
Neil: We have about 40 brands. Internally, we say about 10 really matter. The other 30 serve a purpose, but they’re more limited. The top brands have the most permission—they can expand into events, licensing, commerce, and more. For example, Better Homes & Gardens has a massive licensing business with Walmart, Food & Wine has a huge events business, and People is a full-scale media operation. But some categories—especially traditional service journalism—are shrinking. Take Parents: if your kid has a fever, you go to Google or ChatGPT, not a publisher site. Those brands require the hardest decisions.
